The Power for Promotional Products | Brendan Menapace from NAPCO Media

Marketing trends continue to evolve, and so do the scope and impact of promotional products in this scenario. Explore this vibrant space with  Swire Ho #thepromoguy and Brendan Menapace in this episode of The Small Business Show, focusing on the evolution of branded merchandise. Brendan, known for his professional journey in the print and promo world, brings in rich insights and first-hand experiences to the fore.

From exploring how promotional products help breathe life into a brand's identity to looking at Chipotle's successful integration of eco-friendly methods into their merchandise, this episode is packed with thought-provoking discussions. Brendan also highlights the growing popularity of 'kitting'- an innovative marketing strategy now coming to the forefront. Don't miss Brendan Menapace's expert thought leadership on creating brand-centric bundles for an engaging unboxing experience.

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The Small Business Show is the official podcast for Garuda Promo and Branding Solutions. For more information visit

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Transcript

0:16

And growing a small business. The Small Business Show is the official podcast of Garuda promo and branding solutions. Hello, everyone. You're listening to the Small Business show. My name is Suare Ho. You can also call me a promo guy. Today, my guest B-B-B-B Brendan Menapace. Brendan is a content director for Print and Promo Marketing Magazine, an industry publication that caters to print and promotional product distributors. For the last nine years, he has been in charge of the Headline newsletter, where Ppm features unique case study from around the world of branded merchandise news relevant to distributors and the business. If you follow me on social media, any news that I share probably come from the Headline news that Brandon has shared. I'm very excited for this show, but before that, welcome today, Brandon. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, I got so many questions to ask you, but I really wanted to find out how did you get into the promo covering the promo and print industry? And as a journalist, what do you like most about writing what we do? That's a really good question. I think I kind of stumbled into it the same way that I'm finding out a lot of people are, which was I came out of college with a journalism degree. This is a tough industry to find a job in. I luckily found what at the time was north American Publishing Company. Now it's rebranded as NAPCO Media under the Printing United Alliance umbrella. And it was really just a trial by fire to learn everything about promo. I didn't at the time really know anything about it aside from being on the end user side. I'd get T shirts and promo things just like everyone else, including my first day on the job, getting a branded water bottle and things like that at my desk. And since then, I'd go to the industry trade shows. I'd speak to so many people that suddenly when my colleagues were explaining things to me, it was overwhelming. And then suddenly after going to a few trade shows and really just kind of paying attention to things, you realize, like, oh, I actually understand this now. It rubs off by osmosis. So that was really how I found myself in the industry. And since then, I've continually am learning every single year that I've been here at all of the shows and all the conversations I have with people, I'm still learning so much. And from a journalism perspective, I just love finding, why does anyone gets into this industry? Because they love finding a good story and finding interesting people with interesting stories. And there are so many of those in promo and all the promo adjacent industries every single day. That's really what I want to do with Headlines, is be educational and provide information that promotional products distributors and other promotional products professionals can find helpful in their business. But also to entertain you. If you're not having fun reading it, why are you going to read it? And that's not to say that every single story I write is supposed to be funny and fun, because obviously that's not the case. But really take the educational and the business facing content and make it something that people enjoy reading. Thank you so much for sharing, Brandon. You really literally do make my job easier. It makes me happy. There's so many industries that you cover if you haven't read Brandon's newsletter. Someday he would talk about what he loves, which is skateboarding, and other times he would talk about golfing, he would talk about the mover and shaker in an industry. It covers so many different things. And what I want to focus on, Brendan, is I know that there are pieces out there by Fast Company Magazine who talk about, we don't want swag anymore. They keep using the word swag. So for people, for a company who are thinking about promotional product, it's just wasteful, something that you kind of give away. So what would you comment on that? And how, in your word, do you think companies should be considering using promotional products? Sure, yeah. That's a great question, and it's something we've been covering for years now. My colleague, Sean Norris, when he was in charge, he did a really great deep and long read know, they call it the trinkets and trash pejorative towards the industry. It seemed all the time this narrative pops up and of course, the industry is concerned about all this. You go to any trade show and you see so much about limiting waste, recycled materials, all things like that. And before I even get into that, really, what people have learned is they just need to be smarter with their promos. It's a very easy conclusion to jump to, to say, oh, yeah, promotional products are the problem. People don't want these. People are just going to throw them away. That's not true. It's a very oversimplified conclusion. People are going to hold on to something if you give them something worth holding on to. It's as simple as that. I have countless products that I hold onto, and it's not because of any obligation to hold onto them. Something like a high quality water bottle that's an everyday use. A piece of apparel that you can tell is made well, constructed, well, the imprint or embroidery, whatever decoration method they use, if it's well done, you're going to want to hold onto it. And if you do something we were talking off air about Carhartt as an example of a company that has sort of rebranded itself beyond just its original target audience. Carhartt's a great example. You can use a premium brand like this or create this premium aesthetic, and people will hold onto that item that's just using apparel as an example. This extends, obviously, to tech. This extends to every other facet of the promotional products industry, where if you take that extra time to really look at what end users want, you can look at retail, you can look at the things people are buying from a direct to consumer basis and let that influence your decision. And again, coming at this as someone who is purely just a consumer, I have that sort of double mindset of being someone who reports on the industry, but also someone who just exists in the world and gets branded products. So I know what I would like. And that's something that you can tell is madewell. You can tell the distributor, put a lot of thought into this, and the supplier has a quality product that's really as simple as that. Yeah. Brandon, thanks for giving me such a great answer for it. And to the car example, cart didn't choose to go to Streetwear. It's actually a different organization called Carhartt WIP to pitch them because they know that skateboarder, you probably know, likes to wear carhartt. They like the oversized jersey. So kind of protect them, kind of feels cool. And also, I got to throw in there for the you know, it's so popular right now, but Stanley almost discontinued that product, which they actually do, but an influencer picking up the tumbler, and they are reselling the Stanley tumbler. And then ultimately, Stanley actually couldn't keep up with production. Now everyone everywhere are running all standard tumbler. So for a brand to recognize who their target audience will be and actually answer this question to themselves, what do they really want? The answer to that piece is if you're not focusing and not understanding what your audience want, yes, they will go to trash. But, for example, like, the award behind me is a piece of paper. If I give it to you, Brandon, you probably don't relate to because your name is not on it. Think about runners. They have beat up T shirt that they have ran a marathon 15 years ago. They still wear it every single day because they can connect to it emotionally. But if you give it to me, it doesn't serve the same effect. So we have to go back to the company or the marketer sometime to ask them, who are your audience? Why do you think that these items or gifts are related to them? Yeah, that's exactly right. You made a really good point there about the sentimental value that's obviously, I'd say just as important as objectively the quality of a product. Like you said, a ratty T shirt from a charity, five K. If you didn't run that five K, it's probably worthless to you. But if you did and you have really good memories attached to it, you remember training for it, you remember doing it with your friends, you're never going to get rid of that. You're absolutely going to hold on to that forever. And even if it disintegrates to the point where it's a rag, you're going to hold onto it because you can't bear to get rid of that. And it's almost like parting with the memory. And the other point you made with the Stanley tumblers, almost getting rid of that product, sometimes it is just luck. Sometimes you can't predict what I've written about this before. Sometimes products just become hits on social media and there's no real logic to it. There's no boardroom full of people crunching numbers and doing moneyball to decide which product is going to hit on social media next. Sometimes it is just luck of the draw and that's something you can't predict. But it absolutely happens, like you said. Yeah, it's funny that how the promo sometimes is on the front line for the trend. Sometimes they are taking what's popular and jumping onto the trend. For example, I'm probably giving out my age right now, so 90 is cool again. So if I pull out all the wardrobe when I was young and then I'll be popular again, they are going back to the style again, going, this changes again. So maybe it will bring up brands that have been forgotten. Right. So I see all Nikes are doing right now is to reintroduce some of their popular sneaker style in the United States. They don't even need new shoes anymore. So just bring out the nostalgia and people will pay up for it. So it's funny and it's difficult sometimes to watch the trends and connecting. So the question will be for companies who are out there, who wants to jump onto the trend, how would you advise us to look at what's available to us and then what kind of trend we could probably insert our brand onto and to get more awareness out there? I think that's a tough question. Looking at things like social media, all these influencers, like you said, who are posting things, it's tough because things just move so quickly anymore, a trend will take off and then by the time people have warmed up to it, that's old news. It doesn't have the same effect as it did before, but looking at what younger people especially are doing and trying to not necessarily replicate it, but adopt it, you look at the way a lot of people in I've written extensively about the fast food industry taking cues from streetwear drops. Brands like supreme and palace with these limited drops with only a few items, maybe six to ten items, that there are higher quality. And even uniform items that they have in the restaurant are not the stuffy uniforms you think of in the past. They're T shirts with modern silhouettes, but as you pointed out, all very reminiscent of the 90s. Everything's boxier and baggier again, but they're cooler. That's the way to put it. And I think the best way that a brand can do that, to look outside of apparel, it's hard to predict, I'd say, but just try to look at what people are doing, look at what they're buying, look at what they're receiving, and see how you can integrate that into your own business model. Because everyone, all distributors, clients, they want to be the ones with the coolest products, they just might not know what to ask for. And that's where, I think, distributors can be an extraordinarily valuable asset, to be the ones who can say, this is where the demand, this is what people want, this is what works for this particular vertical. Remember von Dutchwood used to be cool. Everyone wants to dress like a trucker. So I actually have clients in the tech industry. They come to me. I wanted to dress like a mechanic, a trucker. So just so happened, I worked with actually auto body shop. So I gave them their entire uniform with the trucker hat branded with patches, things like that. They were really happy. So I think as a distributor sometimes I look at different industry maybe construction had this, maybe my tech client has this, maybe my nonprofit client had this can I mix them up together? And sometimes I could be jump on to something that is unique sometimes because what happens in other industry another different sector might not think of so I like to mix things up a little bit. That's why you mentioned all the collaboration right when you maybe classical fans and you could also jump on the new trend that could be a YouTuber actually my daughter follow a YouTuber called Tucson Violin they are going on the world tour right now. So these are two young guys play violin they could afford to sell branded merchandise for$50 t shirt and it's sold out everywhere they go. Yeah, absolutely and that's another thing all the YouTubers and social media people, all of the platforms like YouTube and Spotify have built in company stores, so to speak, in the platform where they can sell products directly. So you can even look there's really nowhere where you can't see what people are buying these days and where the demand is. It's everywhere. Yeah, since you touch on that, I do wanted to ask you this question a brand would think that promotional product is something that they will purchase and give away but speaking on that a lot of companies actually jump on the bandwagon, get higher quality product, get it well made to become branded merchandise. Can you touch on that? And can brand if they execute it properly to increase revenue having the right brand of merchandise. Again, I'm plugging our own headlines newsletter a lot but these are things that we've written about a lot. The way that I've worded it is that everyone is a lifestyle brand. Now, if you're a restaurant, if you're a shoe store, you're not just that. There's no such thing as just one thing you've seen. Companies like Chipotle is a great example of this, that it's a fast food place or fast casual. However they want to build themselves. But they started a whole standalone online store, I think it's called Chipotle Goods, where they've been selling T shirts, all sorts of apparel products, all sorts of other products, and continually refreshing their own inventory and doing cool things like making a shirt with a QR code that, when you scan it, it might go to something different. Depending on what they're currently advertising. Or doing something like, oh, we used a bunch of avocado pits to create the dye for this t shirt. They're doing things that are eye catching, and others are. Now not to say that Chipotle was necessarily the front runner on this, they're just an example that I'm using. But all of their competitors now in that space are seeing that. They're seeing that it works. And rather than maybe just sell a T shirt every now and then, they now have their own branded store. And that's a separate online store. And this is a separate entity completely, because now they have to be an all encompassing lifestyle brand because attention spans are so limited in a social media age, you have to be top of mind all the time and just plugging your core product doesn't do enough, even something in sports. Sports is another good example here of something we as society obviously pay a ton of attention to. But it was the Coyotes in the NHL that they hired someone specifically to be I can't remember the exact title they gave him, but basically be a brand director for everything that's not about the sports. The actual on ice action almost has nothing to do with this. He was creating really designer quality gear like apparel and all sorts of other merchandise that was to appeal to people who might have never watched a Coyotes game but might live in Arizona and have that local pride. And they want to show off the brand of the Coyotes, not the team, the Coyotes. And that's also something you're seeing. Think about yankees hats. Dodgers hats. These are teams that have transcended their on field persona. They are now brands. And that's going to be something I think, that we're going to see a lot more of again, especially in the social media age. You get a shirt on the back of if you go to the game, you get a shirt on the back of your seat, you're sharing pictures of it, and everywhere you go, you want to be like whether your team wins and you're at a parade, you want the cool shirt that maybe no one else has. You want these grails, whether it has like a vintage look to it, something that looks and this kind of goes back to what we were talking about in terms of finding something that people want to have, creating something that it's a brand, it's not just a team. As a very long winded response to your question, I'm sorry. Well, we all want to be an individual. And I think a brand needs to do their job to understand who we are. Why do we connect to your brand? It doesn't matter if you're a sports team, if you are a school, if you are a know, there are people who support you. That's why you're still in business, right? But you got to think outside the box to help them support you. Like your example, Brandon. If I go to a nonprofit Galler, for example, they give me some type of merchandise, then with my cell phone, all of us are mini journalists, right? And we share to our social media. Even if I only have ten followers on whatever, right? Then I could influence I think every one of us can influence ten people. They're really close to you, maybe your spouse, maybe your kids. What if you could use that promotional product or branded merchandise to ask your supporter to become your mini ambassador, and then they influence ten other people? So how would that translate to your marketing effort? How would that ROI becomes you? Because a lot of people sometimes will argue with me, what's the ROI that I could get on promotional product, right? When we buy Google Ads, we could see our stats right away. So I think it's more vague, but if you do it right, you can see, like, for example, if you get the finals, right, when you go to favorite teams, you're going to post a picture, you're going to send it to your friends. And when you finish a concert, when you buy a concert T shirt, you're going to wear it to work, or if it's allowed the next day. So actually spreading the word. Or for know, people ask you, who supporting with that logo? Then I will become the media ambassador and tell others what I have experienced and why they should be focusing on what I believe in too. So I think we have to keep that in mind. And Google online ads might not just do that. Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that everyone can be an influencer. It's a relative term. You don't have to have a million followers for someone else to notice what you're wearing or holding or using and think, that's cool. What's that brand? Just a few months ago, I was at a wedding, and I noticed someone had a power bank looked I'm like, that looks nice. I recognized the brand on it, and now I'm obviously very close to this world, but someone else who isn't will now think, oh, what's that company? They'll google it. That's the ROI you're talking about. And that's just at a table full of six people. It doesn't have to be on stage in front of 1000. And that's, I think, really what every promotional distributor wants to do for their client is they want to create a product that gets eyes on it. That gets people talking because then you're talking about the brand. And yes, it's much harder to quantify than something like that allows for Google Analytics, where you can see exactly how many eyes you got on a product. There's a bit more of trust that a T shirt is going to get that attention, but it absolutely does. We're all looking at what everyone else has and what they're using, and if something is interesting and noteworthy and just looks good, it's going to rub off on someone. Yeah. The reason that I never, ever use the word Swag, which stands for stuff we all get, is I think promotional product and especially branded merchandise can be a limited edition. So people like to be special, right? We all like to be special. If I am the top seller for the Million Dollar Club, I wear this jacket. Or if I've been through the IMN challenge, I get this tattoo, right? Or sometimes they put tattoo for the IMN logo because I've been through that. So I am special. I am the unique, elite group that we like to think so with the same budget. I sometimes will tell my clients, you don't need to get the maximum amount of items that you get. What if you could create a special experience for, let's say, your top ten or top 20? So make it really special, make it unique, and then you can actually build trust. And plus, they will give you more business if you do it the right way. Oh, 100%. Everyone loves an incentive for that. And there's a reason that the things that Nike and Ralph Lauren made for Olympic athletes, we can't get all that. Nor should know. They worked their whole lives for that. But that goes back to the streetwear discussion we were having before, where people are really incentivized when they find out there's only a few items. That limited drop mentality has been adopted by so many people. That streetwear style, where it's the same as old commercials like Call now because supplies are running out, you're going to pick up the phone, or you're at least more likely to pick up the phone in that regard. So still goes back to what we were saying about the sentimental value, where if you got, let's say, your company gave you an award or piece of apparel or any other branded product that shows that you might have hit a sales landmark or just some landmark at your job that was really worth celebrating, you're going to hold on to that? And that is something for everyone else to strive for too. They're going to want that. And maybe if you're a nonprofit and a certain tier of people who donate get a special gift of some sort, that's going to be an incentive. And then because not everyone got it, if, let's say, the 15 people they're influencing on social media see that, they think, wow, how'd you get that? They start asking questions and then they might donate to that nonprofit because they want the bag or the sweatshirt or the award, whatever it might be I. Really like that example. So sometimes I will get clients ask me we only have let's say $500 which in some campaign it could be small so what? I would actually challenge them, I will ask them do you guys have any social media following? Chances are most companies nowadays do have, I would say buy something really nice branded for $500 and do a sweepstakes on your social media. Ask for the call to action that you want, maybe sign up for newsletter, maybe buy something or maybe just share it to a friend. I can't tell you how many times that I have shared to all my friends and email everyone just to try to win something that is $10 rally. So think of that. I think that's a limited quality too and then if the persons who want you can actually make a lot of marketing campaign, a lot of PR for that. So you don't have to have a million dollar budget to get people attention you just have to think like what do people really want and wanted to see? And you give it to them. Yeah. And you brought up a great point about the social media call to action anytime. You can blend those two worlds, because as the world becomes more digital, physical products still have a huge role in that. But if you can combine online integration of people going to your website, going to your social media page by using a physical product as part of it, that's great. That's perfect blend of the two. Yeah. Especially you can ask people to do user generated content. For example, I follow Rogue Fitness. They always have challenge that. If you can lift or if you can challenge that we have and post it on the social media, the winner will get actually, a special T shirt. So many people provide user generated content using the brand. So think of that as your marketing plan. Can you create some type of challenge? People love challenges nowadays people love challenges, absolutely. And create a hashtag and campaign over it and have people actually, if they can use your actual product and services. Now, other people because we don't like ad, we know when we see an ad, right away you can smell it. From a mile away? Yeah, as soon as we can. But if someone else is using or answering questions that we might have, then I will pay attention. Like how do other use this product and service and I want to learn more about that. So if you can find ways to generate that using the incentive of promo item, then you're on to something nice. Here 100%. And that's where QR codes have been really valuable too. Because you can print those on a product, whether it's apparel and you can integrate it into the logo. It doesn't have to just be a square. You can change what that directs to all the time, every day, if you want to. It could be whatever you're advertising right now. Brandon, I have you on the show. I have to ask you this question. We're getting close to the holiday season. What kind of trends do you see in the holiday? And let's focus in the business community. What kind of corporate gifts do you think must have all the sector that we should consider in 2023? Well, anyone who has been reading us for a little while now is going to probably know what I'm going to say here. And that's kidding. Kidding has been huge ever since. I'm going to use the pandemic as a real watershed moment, probably, but it's not exclusive to that time period. But that was a time when people needed to reach whether it was employees or customers, they needed to reach them remotely, to use a word I've grown to hate. It was unprecedented. That was when companies would maybe you're a new hire. They were sending you a branded kit with something like a T shirt, water bottle, all the things that I received on my first day at the job. But in a branded box, where the branding experience starts from the second it gets dropped off in the mail. Similarly to QR codes, as the world reopened and shifted back to normality, that stuck around and people really saw the value in combining a printed product like this box, where you can have branding on all the sides of this. Whether it's a bag, whether it's a box, whatever vessel it's delivered in, it's an unboxing experience. First and foremost, we're talking about YouTube. That's a huge thing. But then inside of it, you can have products that complement each other. There could be food. I've seen companies do a S'mores kit for their recipients. They've done pieces of apparel that work together and there's pair of sweatpants and a blanket for as things cool off and people are hanging out at home. In conversations that I've had with suppliers, distributors and buyers, those kits have just been so popular. So finding products from across the whole spectrum of what could be considered a promotional item in this industry, wrapping it all up, literally, maybe even with a bow, with a package that has your customers branding on it, so there's no mistaking where it came from. Yes, all the products inside will have a logo on it, most likely to some degree, but it's a whole experience. And I think that's what really a lot of distributors and end buyers want with their campaigns, is that it's an experience. Yeah, I really like that. And I think to add on to that, if your product and services solve a problem, can that kit actually give the audience a taste of the actual experience? Maybe you're going on an expensive cruise. Can that. Box, give them some thinking of that. Or in the case of LinkedIn, I noticed that people who switch jobs and they actually pose what they receive from their new employer the first day. So how would that do to your recruitment process? And people who are on the edge of thinking about maybe switching also, wow, they get this really nice box and really nice compared to other things that we do. I know young people, they would rather take less money sometime to have work in a cooler place or something that they really stood by and stand for and really proud of. I'm working with this organization because they in line with my value. A lot of times people actually take less money working for those organizations. Yeah, that's absolutely right. You're 100% correct there. And you can tell your brand story through this. You can show that you're a company that cares about its employees or its customers, whoever might be receiving this kit. And you can show a bit like you use the cruise as an option. You can show a bit about what you do, whether it's a hotel could do something like send slippers in a robe, just kind of remind you of the luxury experience you have there. And from an employee standpoint, it does show you're part of the team. You have these shirts, you have the hat, you have the water bottle. You have something fun like bags of popcorn, things that just are fun. They're good, they're nice show. We care about you as a person. You're part of the team. You're valuable, you're valued, all consumed by the brand. You can't look at any part of it without thinking of that brand positively. Brendan, it might be a difficult and hard question for you, but I wanted to see if you can give us one case study for a brand that you follow, that you think doing everything right. And can you also talk about what they have done to make you come to this conclusion? That is a really difficult question. One of the ones that stands out to me recently, the company Rivian, which is an electric vehicle company, they had a really will have a pretty tough uphill battle with other more established it's hard to disrupt the automobile industry. That's impossible. And even the electric vehicle side of it. The first thing you might think of is Tesla or a Prius or any number of the more established automobile brands that are into electric vehicles. Now, what Rivian did was they did what I mentioned a few minutes ago and really become a lifestyle brand. Even if you don't have this car yet, people are interested in, they do bags, they do apparel, they do all these things that it's very carefully curated with color schemes. Everything is reminiscent of the main product, which is the car. So you can't get a piece of apparel without still tying it back to the car and I think what they did is they built now a community of people who are really excited about this brand, whether they're driving that car or not. So that's something that stood out to me through limited releases and a very cohesive plan of merchandise with branding that isn't overt, but it's visible. But it's not overt. It's still extremely fashionable. The logo placement is something you see in a designer brand. That was something that stood out to me of, like, yeah, they really nailed that one. Yeah. I think being fashionable and really studying your audience is key to success, because people always ask me, what should I buy? What should we get? I will ask them a question. Who are your target audience? Tell me more about who they are. Because the idea is not used to work. Swag right. You want to be limited. You want it to be catered to people who will be your customer anyway, because not everyone can be your customer. And so why spend money to market, to people who don't even consider your brand? So, for the you know, they they know their audience. They wanted to cater to them. It's a different unique experience for driving our car, having our experience, and come try us out. So I think that's a great example. Brandon, thank you. Yeah, it's the high perceived value. Everything, even if it's not an expensive item, it carries with it a perception of quality. Yeah, it really goes back to what you said. It's a lifestyle. People who ride Hollies will always just ride holly's. And people who drive a Jeep or drive whatever that they do, that's the brand. And you can break them away. It's their lifestyle choice that they choose. It could be the software that you use. You cover a lot about sports. Maybe they only play that sports team. And all the brand merchandise in the house is that sports team. Maybe that's where you went to college. And can you, as a company, become that brand? So I think if you can answer that question and know who your target audience will be and cater to them, not only you could get more awareness, you can actually make more money doing that, too. Yeah, absolutely. The St. Louis Cardinals did an emo night, promo night, and they had an original piece of artwork of the Cardinal with the emo bangs, and it said in the My Chemical Romance font, but it said Cardinals, I think. I can't remember the exact font, but it was such a good original thing that you could see people go into the ballpark if they didn't care about the Cardinals at all, just to get that T shirt. And I'm not a Cardinals fan. I'm a Phillies fan. I am anti Cardinals sorry, St. Louis fans, but I wanted that shirt. Yeah, that's a good example. Even they're not sending to the target audience, I know you cover it, so you probably on the newsletter. But even people who are not interested, maybe they don't know about your industry at all. But if you have a nice product, people take notice. It's the entry point. Yeah, exactly. It's the entry point for them. So, Brandon, I know that there's a lot more that we could talk about that could go on for the next 4 hours. But for listeners who might want to reach out to you or to follow you and learn more about what you're doing, what would be a good way? Well, you can find the Headlines newsletter@printandpromomarketing.com. We have all of our content there. There's also the free product search for distributors who register with us. And in the short term, you can visit us at the Printing United Expo. We will be there in Atlanta. That will be October 17 through the 20th. I'm sorry, october 18 through the 20th. You'll find us there. You can find our sister publications there. We'll be running all around the floor. If you are there and see me running around, please stop me and say hi. Thank you so much, Brandon, for coming on to the show today. I learned a lot. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to the show. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the podcast and share with your friends or colleagues who might benefit from the conversation. Any questions or feedback, feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'd love to connect with you.

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